lawgon ([info]lawgon) wrote,

A Dog worth 16,000 dollars an hour

Some time back, i was involved in an animal welfare society. A couple of americans dropped in, dug up the mangiest, most fleabitten and sorriest looking mutt they could find and took a photo of it. Posted it on the internet. 'Save Indian Animals'. In the first hour they had collected $16,000 in donations. What happened to the money is another story. There is a strange relationship between bleeding heart westerners and some breeds of Indians. The westerners, burdened with guilt, tend to take any report from India at face value, and the Indians tend to only respect what is endorsed by the westerners.

So to the ongoing debate on whether FOSS.IN has any thing to do with the open source movement in India and whether the community should support it. The major argument in favour of FOSS.IN is that it is a $16,000 an hour dog - namely endorsed by a lot of westerners. Incidently, the westerners involved all have impeccable credentials, but that is not the point. The point is - dont we also have indigenously produced contributors and movers and shakers in the open source field? And doesnt their endorsement count for anything?

Raj Mathur on the ILUGD mailing list has raised two questions regarding FOSS.IN. Firstly the conference will be show casing proprietory software also. And secondly that the entity called 'linux bangalore' which is running the conference is a apparently not a community driven one. In short, he asks, how can a conference run by a 'closed source' organisation in a 'closed source' non transparent manner, showcasing closed source software in the exhibition arena contribute in any way to the development of the open source movement in India?

Here it is also relevant to note that the conferences termed lb-2001, lb-2002 and lb-2003 were conducted by the Bangalore Linux Users Group - and these were trail breaking conferences. In the beginning of 2004, the Bangalore Linux Users Group was dissolved and the entity known as Linux Bangalore claims to be its successor. The full story is here: http://kingsly.net/kingsly/Linux/bangalore/no-blug/

There is another school of thought which says - look, dont spoil India's image abroad by indulging in politics. Politics, as far as I know, is manoeuvering for position and power. Not for pointing out defects and discrepancies. We also have healthy well fed and trained dogs in India and are quite capable of breeding more.

Incidently, my own final spat with Atul Chitnis was over the conference management software. This software had been developed by various members of the Bangalore Linux Users Group over the years and and as far back as 2001 a project in sourceforge http://sourceforge.net/projects/eveman had been set up to open source the software. This never happened. This year, a couple of us volunteered to help out in open sourcing it - we were met with a flat refusal. The software developed by BLUG members is now the property of Linux Bangalore.

The debate on the ILUGD list is going on

  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Your IP address will be recorded 

  • 10 comments

Deleted comment

[info]lawgon

September 22 2005, 10:02:29 UTC 6 years ago

open versus closed

just for the record, atul has set a filter to block any mails from me to him. He also doesnt permit comments on his diary. And censors posts to those mailing lists of which he has the admin password. But i am going to allow him to pollute my blog. Incidently, the eveman project page doesnt talk of 'bash scripts' but of php. And, of course, we have no way of knowing who wrote the code of the software in question as it is not open to the public. (i think SCO had a similar problem). However, it is a fact that a month or so back, on #linux-bangalore, toolz is on record as having agreed that the code was written variously by Mahendra, Kingsley, Biju and now maintained by Tarique. The logs can be checked.

Deleted comment

[info]kingsly

September 22 2005, 18:43:35 UTC 6 years ago

Oracle on Linux would definitely have been on-topic for *Linux-Bangalore/200x". Because the focus of those events was "Linux"

But it definitely looks out of place in a FOSS conference, where the organizers claim it's about Free / Open Souce and Oracle is neither.

Deleted comment

[info]lawgon

September 23 2005, 05:09:37 UTC 6 years ago

as for oracle - postgresql is getting there. If you look at the pg mailing lists, there are at least 4 or 5 posts a week from people migrating from oracle, and when you realise that these are people who have shelled out cash money for oracle, it means the postgresql must have *something* to it.

[info]lawgon

September 23 2005, 02:17:25 UTC 6 years ago

Re: open versus closed

This post was in reply to a comment by Atul Chitnis which he has now deleted. I didnt delete it. Just to summarise it, along with a lot of personal invective, he has stated that the conference organisation software has been solely written by him and tarique in 2003 and has nothing to do with the software written by blug members upto 2003. He further stated that the software contemplated in the eveman project was 'nothing but a bunch of bash scripts written by mahendra'. All this sounds like the guy who gives his son an axe on his birthday saying - 'son, treasure this, it is my grandfather's axe, my father changed the handle and i changed the blade'. Most people reading this are software guys - and dont need telling that even if the handle and blade have been changed, the axe is still something handed down over generations and to be treasured as the ongoing product of generations.

[info]lawgon

September 23 2005, 02:25:43 UTC 6 years ago

showcasing

The objection to showcasing prop software is Raj Mathur's. I am still a bit ambivalent about this. I think the FLOSS on M$ platforms should be encouraged, but as for closed source stuff on FOSS platforms, this is a bit of a can of worms. Like do we wait for autocad equivalent to appear in floss, or do we encourage porting autocad to floss platforms - which will ensure that a floss autocad equivalent never appears? Going by gut feeling my gut vehemently opposes any celebration of porting any closed source app to linux - but then i have been accused of having a vested interest in that i am developing an open source financial accounting software and am afraid that tally ported to linux would eat into my market.

[info]jace

September 23 2005, 03:03:36 UTC 6 years ago

Following the trail:

http://blug.in/wiki/index.php/BLUGweb:About

Says "a huge group of Linux users" (collectively BLUG), says "maintain several high-quality, high SNR mailing lists." So it says the BLUG maintains the lists, perhaps implying the BLUG even owns the lists. Next, the mailing lists link:

http://blug.in/wiki/index.php/Mailing_lists

Links to the same old linux-bangalore-* lists on Yahoo Groups. I recall a certain individual there who has on occasion reiterated that the lists are his home where his, and only his, rules apply. He made it clear he ran the lists on behalf of the BLUG, but that they didn't belong to the BLUG. So if the BLUG is truly a free community, why hasn't anyone bothered to start an open list and add it to the BLUG's collection of lists? It's not like no one tried -- there was an openblore list that has mysteriously disappeared since.

Dissent is not tolerated even off the lists. The perpetrator of this notice on such controversies was issued a threat that included being reported to his employer for wasting company time (off web, private circulation).

In my not so humble opinion, the real problem is that we have an individual who fears being seen to profit off his own hard work, and therefore hides in the garb of a community. If he would only lose that fear and boldly claim credit and profit for his actions, the world would be a happier place.

[info]lawgon

September 23 2005, 05:04:24 UTC 6 years ago

following the trail

This is a very valid point. For me personaly, Atul has been a huge influence in the software part of my life ever since the BBS days of 94-95 and especially the path-breaking PCQuest issue of 1996. And subsequently till date. He has easily earned enough good will, contacts and reputation to carry an event like foss.in on his own. And he has a good team, each one eminent in his own right. And a very large number of enthusiasts who are willing to give of their time and energy regardless of whether it is a community driven event or not. So why not do it?

[info]jace

September 23 2005, 07:14:25 UTC 6 years ago

Ken, were you ever on CiX? I was there 1996-98.

[info]lawgon

September 23 2005, 07:46:20 UTC 6 years ago

Was there in 94 or 95, dont exactly remember when, but std from ooty with a 2400? modem became a little expensive - so i started my own local one using max on dos

Deleted comment

[info]jace

September 23 2005, 07:07:42 UTC 6 years ago

Nothing wrong with an event management organisation that credited and paid everyone fairly. Anything other than this mythical community voodoo.
Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Facebook Twitter More login options
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…